March 15, 2007
So, Not Having Played Pot-Limit Omaha Before…
… I jump into a low stakes game, 5c/10c. I buy-in short for $6. I’m bored, all my usual limit hold’em games are rock gardens and I’m not in the mood for no-limit hold’em.
As I’m dealt a few hands I start to realise I don’t really know what a good starting hand is. Something about suited aces, big pairs and suited cards that can work together for straight ring a bell. Seems logical then that after folding my first five hands I limp from early position with:
Doesn’t really meet any of those prerequisites does it? Probably an easy fold for anyone with the least bit of Omaha experience but to me this connectedy suitedy holding looked interesting. Three players plus the blinds decide to come along and we see a flop:
Even a newbie like me knows that this is not the premium holding it would be at a hold’em table. With the large number of cards out there it’s likely my 6 is either dominated by kicker or someone has already made a full house. I make a mental not to tread carefully. The two blind players to my left check and I decide to chuck in a half pot-sized bet (with the intention of throwing it away if I get any major resistance). It’s folded around to the big blind who calls and we’re heads up. I know nothing about the big blind player except he has 2.5 times the max buy-in in front of him and therefore must have won a hand or two tonight. Though I know from hold’em experience this does not necessarily mean he knows what he’s doing I can’t discount it. At this micro-limit however, anything is possible.
We see the turn:
He checks and I, still wary of the trap, check behind. The river:
And now he bets, half the pot. Looks like an attack on my weakness to me so I raise and am promptly raised all-in.
What does he have?
Now knowing anything about him or Omaha I decide I can’t lay this hand down. Only two hands beat me (88 and TT) and I’ve only played 6 hands of Omaha, how can I put him on those? I call.
He turns over:
For a bigger full house with his pocket 8’s.
So dear reader, bad luck?, bad play (post flop)? or both? If I’m going to get good at the “future of poker” I’m going to need to know!
P.S. Yes, I’m back… I had a whole comeback post planned but I’ll save that for later.
March 15th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Welcome back, friend! And welcome to, as my buddy Erwin puts it, that “crazy game of poker.” As I’ve been writing about, I’ve only gotten back into PLO here recently (used to play a lot), so take my two cents with a grain of salt.
Limping with that hand is no big crime (to me) — better from late pos., actually, but if you get to see the flop for cheap yr okay. You are double-suited, and all four cards do (almost) work together. (Indeed, your starting hand was slightly better than the winner’s was.) You can play hands like that, I think, but have to be extremely wary if you flop a straight or straight draw if it ain’t the nuts (or to the nuts).
Your flop bet was reasonable — if I’m you I’m also very concerned about someone else with the case 6 & better kicker. His call was correct (he’s flopped the stone cold nuts, unless quads is out there). The turn card was pretty harmless, so his check there is probably good, too. (Yours was too.) His river bet was smart as well (he probably didn’t luck into that stack). Without the nuts, you really should just call. Now if he’s already demonstrated that he’s foolish enough to bet a made straight w/a pair on board, you might play differently. But without the nuts, I usually try to avoid the big loss (not that I always do).
You might check out that Hutchison chart (which I linked to in my 3/13 post) if you’re looking for a way to gauge starting hands. You’ll get a feel for it eventually, though. (I really don’t use a chart anymore.)
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Thanks for the feedback Shamus, I’m certainly looking forward to exploring the “crazy game of poker” a bit further.
I have to agree with your call on the river advice and to be honest, although I consider the pocket 8’s in my analysis I didn’t give them enough thought at the time. All part of the learning curve I guess.
I’ll check out your post and get back to the Omaha tables soon, at the moment though I’m slowly getting addicted to low games like Razz and 2-7 (posts on those games to come). Either way, it’s refreshing to be playing something other than hold’em. How’d you go in the AIPS PL Omaha?
March 28th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Hi,
PLO is uh…not my best game, but when you are facing a push on the river there you’re beat almost 100%. Think about the decision to raise the river though - that’s the key to this hand. If he’s just trying to bluff you out after your turn check you might as well just call - your hand is basically a bluff catcher only, except against the worst players who would call with just a straight or trips. Finally, a lot of straightforward players at smaller stakes will always bet the full pot unless they have a big hand on the river and want a call - so his small bet here simply screams value. Even calling is close, but getting 3-1 I think you’ll see a random 6 or straight often enough.
Also you should probably bet full pot on the flop or check, because although you can’t call a raise, you’d like to protect your hand as trips with a straight draw is still a pretty nice hand on this flop. At the very least you might be able to get the others behind you to fold (which is what happened anyway) and be able to play the turn/river in position.
April 13th, 2007 at 9:08 am
I saw a great comment on Poker Night Live about Omaha.
The guy said that you look at your starting hand and want 6 good HE hands.
AAKK double suited gives you AA, KK, and two AK suited. you would normally look at 2 good holdem hands as 4 cards hands but because of the combinations you need to look for six. You also need to be careful. There was a scenario once when someone had hit the nut straight in a full ring game on the turn, but there was NO card in the deck left that could come on the river that would not make him lose…